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arrow problems

 
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  #1  
Old 08-07-2012, 01:00 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: illinois
Posts: 15
arrow problems

just started shooting my tac 15 its awsome but its tearing my flechings still have the bisket on it would like to have a drop away on it but it shouldnt tear fleches took it to 100 yds not good groups at 100 but not to bad need a differant trigger to it is bad
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2012, 10:57 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 53
Re: arrow problems

Hi rifle hunter,

If you are shooting factory arrows, one thing you can do that will help keep the fletching on the arrows is place a drop of glue on both the front and back end of each fletch. Losing fletchings is a common problem with the factory arrows.

There are much better arrows available for the TAC 15's (Firenock being the best in my opinion) but they aren't inexpensive.

A drop away rest and a good trigger will definitely improve your shooting.

Regards,

Buzzard Bait
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  #3  
Old 08-08-2012, 01:10 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: arrow problems

Hi Riflehunter,
The information my god friend Buzzard Bait has given you is definitely sound advice and comes from years of experience on these crossbows.

That said, I'm sure he had forgotten that the shearing of vanes was a major problem that we dealt with a little over a year ago when many people were reporting they would lose one or more vanes each time they were out target shooting.

After much trial an error we discovered that the vane glue being used by PSE was insufficient to provide a tight enough bond to prevent the vanes from coming off.

The solution was to refletch each arrow using a combination of a better glue and insure proper shaft preparation before beginning the fletching process.

I'll post a follow up with a set of detailed instructions on how to properly perform the refletching steps. In short, I've shot easily over 3,000 arrows from my TAC15i and have not had a single vane come off.

Buzzard Baits suggestions might help save you the refletching job if used on those arrows that have not lost any vanes yet.

Regards,

Jon Henry
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2012, 09:53 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: illinois
Posts: 15
Re: arrow problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon.henry755 View Post
Hi Riflehunter,
The information my god friend Buzzard Bait has given you is definitely sound advice and comes from years of experience on these crossbows.

That said, I'm sure he had forgotten that the shearing of vanes was a major problem that we dealt with a little over a year ago when many people were reporting they would lose one or more vanes each time they were out target shooting.

After much trial an error we discovered that the vane glue being used by PSE was insufficient to provide a tight enough bond to prevent the vanes from coming off.

The solution was to refletch each arrow using a combination of a better glue and insure proper shaft preparation before beginning the fletching process.

I'll post a follow up with a set of detailed instructions on how to properly perform the refletching steps. In short, I've shot easily over 3,000 arrows from my TAC15i and have not had a single vane come off.

Buzzard Baits suggestions might help save you the refletching job if used on those arrows that have not lost any vanes yet.

Regards,

Jon Henry
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2012, 10:33 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: illinois
Posts: 15
Re: arrow problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon.henry755 View Post
Hi Riflehunter,
The information my god friend Buzzard Bait has given you is definitely sound advice and comes from years of experience on these crossbows.

That said, I'm sure he had forgotten that the shearing of vanes was a major problem that we dealt with a little over a year ago when many people were reporting they would lose one or more vanes each time they were out target shooting.

After much trial an error we discovered that the vane glue being used by PSE was insufficient to provide a tight enough bond to prevent the vanes from coming off.

The solution was to refletch each arrow using a combination of a better glue and insure proper shaft preparation before beginning the fletching process.

I'll post a follow up with a set of detailed instructions on how to properly perform the refletching steps. In short, I've shot easily over 3,000 arrows from my TAC15i and have not had a single vane come off.

Buzzard Baits suggestions might help save you the refletching job if used on those arrows that have not lost any vanes yet.

Regards,

Jon Henry
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2012, 10:58 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: arrow problems

Hi Riflehunter,
Here is a copy of a thread I posted a few weeks back about arrow building for the TAC15 Crossbow. There's another article that was written by Dorge Huang recently which talks about how to properly prepare an arrow shaft and glue vanes, which is more up your alley, but I need to locate it on a different website.

This will give you a much deeper appreciation of some of what's involved in getting arrows tuned properly for perfect flight from one arrow to the next.

Let's start with the easiest stuff first. The "Firenock" products are also known as Aerobolt II's and are produced by Firenock.com. They are a super high quality arrow that is made specifically to replace the factory PSE TAC15 arrows.

The only down side is that they are expensive, but you do get what you pay for. Every aspect of the Aerobolt II's are made with precision. Their Inserts and their points are machined to very exacting tolerances that nobody else in the industry even comes close to. The shafts are a specially produced version of an Easton Carbon Shaft that is a multi-spined shaft. You must let "Dorge" know that the arrows need to be fletched for the TAC15 crossbow. This way he will produce them in a 4 fletch, 60 x 120 fletching pattern.

Next,
To your question about Spine Matching? It requires the use of a Carbon Spine Tester in order to test and match your arrow spines. As each arrow is tested on the spine meter you will record the high and lower range readings on a piece of paper. If they were PSE TAC shafts for example, you might have readings such as .0159 - .0170 for one shaft. Then .0160 - .0168 for another and .0163 - .0170 for a third. All of these shafts are closely related enough to be in the same spine grouping. As long as the deviation in spine readings are within a few points of one another they will perform similarly. If they are more than a few points off from the main readings, they need to placed into a separate spine grouping.

The particular spine tester that use is by RAM Products and it's the RAM QC Carbon Spine Tester. Their number is 208-882-1396. On the RAM Spine Tester the highest number reading on the gauge indicates the stiff side of the arrow spine. It is this "Stiff Side" marking that is marked first in the center of the arrow spine and then transferred to the nock end of the shaft in order to orient the nocks to the stiff side of the spine.

RAM supplies some very good instructions with their product on the step by steps for each of these activities and they also have very good product support for their customers in the event one has any questions.

When I have PSE Arrows that are different lengths, this is not very critical because there's an over abundance of extra length of arrow shaft that hangs over the front of the crossbow at full draw, so it's far more important to get all shafts weighing the same, than it is to be of exactly the same length.

I use an electric Horizon Arrow Cut-off Saw to cut and adjust my arrow shafts.
Start by weighing all bare shaft before any work is performed and before any vanes have been placed on them. In this case one must identify their lightest weight arrow shaft because it's far easier to take weight off all others than it would be to add weight to the lightest shafts. I start by shaving 1/16 or thinner slices off my heavier shafts and then weighing each until I get it close to the weight of my lightest shafts. When finished with this process your shafts should be fairly close in weight. They do not need to be anywhere near exact because vanes and nocks being added will change their weight before you are done.

Next, I complete all spine testing and also mark the stiff side of each arrow shaft.

Then I insert my new nocks. For this step I only use Firenock "D" nocks and insert them without any glue, so they can easily be removed when I'm ready. I'm only putting the nocks 3/4's of the way in and aligning them with the stiff side marking on the shaft such that the stiff side marking is in the 12:00 o'clock position when the arrow is on the string of the crossbow.

Once this alignment has been performed, you can now perform your vane fletching. As each arrow is completed, just set it aside and allow it to dry overnight.

Once all vanes have been completed the nocks can be removed and set aside. Each arrow now needs to be weighed and the weight needs to be written down next to what number arrow it is in the group you are producing. When finished you should have a list numbered 1 - 12 or how ever many you are making and next to each the weight of each shaft measured in tens or 100ths of a grain. one decimal place to the right of the decimal point is tens. two positions after it would be the 100ths column.

You will then begin with the heaviest shaft and add a bull dog nock collar (Carbon Express Bull Dog Nock Collar CXL250) is the correct size for PSE TAC15 Arrow Shafts). These are held on by using a very small amount of slow setting Epoxy Cement and then add one of the nocks you set aside from that earlier step. Use a very small amount of glue to the nock also and make sure you align the nock back in the correct position so the stiff side of the arrow shaft is in the 12:00 o'clock position when the arrow is on the string.

Once this has been done, you need to immediately weigh this arrow and record the weight on paper next to this arrow number. This weight is important because all other arrows will be brought to this weight by adding as much glue as necessary to achieve this exact weight. Therefore you must work with your arrow scale next to you at all times. If the weight comes out higher than this weight you will pull out the nock with a set o pliers and remove some glue. If the arrow weighs less than the weight of the first arrow, the you will use pliers and remove the nock to add another drop of glue. You can place glue on the inside hollow part of the nock if necessary to add more. Once you are within one or two tenths of a grain seat the nock permanently by pushing it all he way in as far as it will go. Remember to always double check the nocks alignment to the stiff side of the spine marking on your arrow shaft to insure each one is aligned with the stiff side at 12:00 o'clock when finished.

Repeat these steps until all arrows are fully finished and then allow 24 hours to completely dry.

When finished, you will have created a completely matched, tuned and weight balanced set off arrows that will perform as well and better than anything you can buy anywhere.

I can achieve consistent perfect arrow performance from my 4 fletch arrows and although I can also achieve this with a set of Dorges, Aerobolt II's, I can't get any better grouping from one over the other because the oscillation and timing on both are as good as it can be. If one is willing to put in this much work they can achieve outstanding performance from either arrow, so it's hard to advocate a 3 vane configuration over a 4 vane configuration.

Even Dorge's arrows are not nock aligned to the stiff side of is arrows spines, so if you want the best possible performance from his arrows, this step needs to be performed in order to achieve it.

There are no known manufacturers who routinely perform this function, so it's a custom tuning step that the shooter must perform if desired.

Regards,

Jon Henry
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2012, 01:19 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: arrow problems

Hi Riflehunter,
Below is a reprint of a thread that was written by Dorge Huang, the owner of Firenock. Dorge is not only brilliant, but also has degrees in Electrical Engineering and many years of experience with archery, hunting and numerous other related skills.

I would doubt that anybody would find any type of disagreement with his step-by-steps unless they have no idea what is the absolute best way of properly preparing and fletching Carbon Shaft Arrows. Dorge has made some minor updates to this list recently, but they are not very important unless one is trying to perfect the process by eliminating contaminants from playing a roll in the process. I would suggest reading and retaining these steps until they become second nature, since this is the only fully correct way to fletch arrows.

As a chemist, and spent a good time in labs I can tell you the real key points about the gluing applications. Surface treatment/cleaning, glue age, cure environment, EVEN pressure, and the glue's actual spec will guarantee results. Any glue IF used correctly will give you good results. That is why I publish arrow prep and glue procedures. Case in point, if you put a tiny bit of WD 40 on your shaft just before you glue the vane on, how good you think it will work. Or use super glue in new Orleans in June in an open garage, the moisture and heat in the air would make CA less effective. Or use so call powder based cleaners before using glue. It is all less ideal for glueing. Henkels publish the most extensive guides for glueing any surface; if followed you can technically glue anything together. I have even successfully glue milk jugs successfully. FYI, most super glue will drop strength by 50% after 12 months from the time it is made! That is why I have manufacturing date on every package of glue I sell,

Below is what I publish for using AG0600 with Aerovane jig. FYI, each vane will hold 650lbs after 11-15 seconds.

Aerovane Fletching procedure
To Fletch Aerovane, the following material are needed;
a) Aerovane(s)
b)Arrow shaft(s)
c) A precision index vane jig
d) A bottle of 500 centipoises (cP) or higher viscosity superglue (e.g.
Firenock Aerovane glue AG0600, Goat-tough, G5 G-LOC BLU GLUE)

e) A bottle of 100% pure Acetone (generally available at WallMart cosmetic
section or any Home Depot or Lowe's in the paint department)
.
f) Q-tips that do not have plastic or synthetic material in them
g) Tiny glass cup for the Q-tip to dip into
h) A roll of paper towels

Procedure
1) Thoroughly clean the surface of the shaft(s) by dipping the shaft(s) into a
bottle of 100% pure acetone
.
2) Swirl the shaft inside the acetone bottle for a few minutes to loosen all
particles and dissolve all possible contaminate on the shaft(s).

3) Wipe dry with clean paper towel.
4) Let air dry, then the surface of the shaft(s) is ready for fletching.
5) Insert the Aerovane in a vane clamp.
6) Dip one end of the Q-Tip into the acetone and wipe down the base of the
vane from one end to the other
.
7) Take the dry end of the Q-Tip and wipe dry the vane in the same direction
as above
.
8) Apply a small bead of glue down the length of the vane base. This should
be approximately 1/3 as wide as the base of the vane.

9) Place the back end of the clamp against the inner wall of the jig just
above the arrow.

10) Slowly lower the clamp until the magnets grab hold of the clamp.
11) Firmly push the clamp all the way to the arrow, and wait the allotted
time depending on the type of glue you are using. (Firenock Aerovane
Glue setting time is 11-15 seconds)
.
12) Open the clamp to free the vane from the clamp and rotate the vane
away from the clamp while the clamp is still on the magnet
.
13) With the vane away, slide the clamp away from the jig and away from
the magnet at no less than 45 degree from the magnet
.
14) Take the Q-Tip swabbed with Acetone and wipe down the blade part of
the clamp
to remove any residue and clean the blade surface and
edges.

15) Wait a few seconds to allow the clamp to dry.
16) Repeat step 5 - 15 for the next vane until all vanes are finished.
17) Once all vanes are finished, add a small drop of glue to the front edge
and rear edge of each vane where it meets the arrow shaft. This
provides both a slight ramp and also adds a more secure attachment
point for anchoring vanes to the shaft during deep penetrations.

Regards,

Jon Henry
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