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Compound Errors Missed Target

 
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:15 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 9
Re: Compound Errors Missed Target

Additionally, the chart data you posted (thank you), suggest several things (though I must correct you, the sighting wasn't 10" high. The bounce off the sticks put moved the POI AS MUCH AS 10", though it could have been just 6" high.):

One is that my host zeroing the gun at 50yds is suboptimal. It would have been better to zero at 75, I think. That will give a more "flat" aim point over most of the effective ranges.

The data also suggests that that load didn't drop that much at 125 yds, probably. I might run the numbers, but I've seen other claims suggesting a fairly flat trajectory out to 100 yds for my slugs.

All other comments stand. I'll KNOW what my gun does out to range and off sticks next year. I urge others to learn from my mistake.

M
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2013, 06:18 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Spring Lake Michigan
Posts: 288
Re: Compound Errors Missed Target

I don't think what you did was immoral by any standards. I myself have people I trust to sight in guns and not shoot them before I hunt I have yet to have to do that but I would in certain situations. I also do a ton of sighting in for people who do exactly what you do, and I feel more confident with it that way than the I hit a pie plate so its good approach most take here in Mich.
Back on track you may have just got a flyer. that happens with slugs and muzzleloaders. I shoot about 200-300 rounds out of slug guns a year and every now and again one just goes crazy. And like you said it was a mistake it happens to us all in the heat of things, the important part is you learn from it not just keep doing it. Hope you have better luck next time.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2013, 09:18 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near Napoleon,MI
Posts: 997
Re: Compound Errors Missed Target

What is the meaning of "sighted in" if it is not representative of how you shoot in the field ? Why should the POI move 10" at 75 yards (thats a ridiculous amount BTW and if it happened on a shot at 75 yards what makes you think it will not fly the same way regardless of distance ?)

The only time the rifle is "sighted in" is when it hits the same point of impact as your point of aim when shot under field conditions. Anything else is of no value whatsoever if you are not able to replicate the results in the field...

I hardly go to the range at all anymore, since I now have permanently installed targets on the sheep farm at 160 and 320 yards (12x12" steel plate) and I can shoot from any field condition (sitting, prone, sticks etc) and of course I can move up on the closest target if needed (like the ML at 75 yards). In fact I was just there this afternoon checking out a new 22WMR (sucked BTW) and verifying zero and drops on my 243 AI and another 308 rifle I just gave away.

Any time I shoot, it is off the same rest system I usually use for hunting, so generally a bipod, with or without a rear bag. It is what I use for grouping, to zero the scope, and for making any kill.

The fact that you are apparently not disturbed by seeing an apparent 10" POI shift (and then apparently not correcting it prior to hunting again), illustrates that you do not understand the skill needed to master this sport. I regularly come into contact with people who own guns, who have no idea how to shoot. I can assure you that if you lined up 20 different people and handed them a (12 ga I am assuming) slug gun, that the outcome would not be very encouraging. Honestly, I think that to shoot a slug gun in a repeatable and accurate manner is one of the harder things to do in this sport. And to do this on targets at a variety of ranges even more so.

The fact that one is hunting with a "mere" slug gun does not make anything easier, no - compared to hunting with a 243, 308, 30-06 or magnum of whatever variety - the slug gun is the most difficult to use effectively. Take another look at that trajectory. That is with a relatively good BC 45 caliber 250gr slug. Many shotgun slugs are in fact worse. Range to target and your actual zero are VERY important with these weapons.
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2013, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 9
Re: Compound Errors Missed Target

See, hyperbole is my problem. You should "sight in" your comments to make them more accurate.

"No value whatsoever"? Really? I've got 60 lbs (or whatever) of venison in my freezer that say's otherwise. The gun as provided to me was more than adequate for almost all of the deer I saw during the pre season and season alike. Most were at less than 50 yds. Not even remotely a challenge. So much for "no value".

We've established that shooting off sticks introduced a variable (that I was unaware of) that made poi unreliable (at least on the vertical axis). Honestly, I was led to believe that it was correctable by holding the barrel down. I'm pretty sure it was not at this point, and may have made the situation worse.

It would be good to know that in the future, and I will. I urge others to make sure to shoot off the sticks when sighting in, if you're going to use sticks in the field.

And, of course, as noted, this may all be onanism. It may have been a flyer (I don't think so, but it must be acknowledged).
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2013, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near Napoleon,MI
Posts: 997
Re: Compound Errors Missed Target

What are you looking for on this forum ? This is a "long range" forum after all ?

I heard that you took 2 shots. First time you said you hit 10" above the point of aim. Second time you had a clean miss. Between both shots you tried a different way of holding the weapon without having practiced on an inanimate object first (target).

Are you learning anything ? Are you going to approach the situation in a more practiced and scientific manner next time ? Will you have spent money and time and put enough lead downrange at several distances to know where the bullet will hit, what the drop is for different ranges and know how to reliably support the weapon in the field ?

I killed 1 buck with my Savage 20ga bolt action slug gun and that was shot right below the ear at 125 yards. Yes, if you do not get an accurate range, it is not going to be easy to hit anything clean, but a lot more so when a buck is facing directly at you pawing the ground and you don't want to gut shoot it. I figure I made 3 trips to the range and fired about 30 rounds of 3 different types of 20 ga slugs before I got the weapon figured out. After that, I needed an accurate range on the target, no other excuses.

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  #13  
Old 12-03-2013, 06:47 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 9
Re: Compound Errors Missed Target

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcliffe01 View Post
What are you looking for on this forum ? This is a "long range" forum after all ?

I heard that you took 2 shots. First time you said you hit 10" above the point of aim. Second time you had a clean miss. Between both shots you tried a different way of holding the weapon without having practiced on an inanimate object first (target).

Are you learning anything ? Are you going to approach the situation in a more practiced and scientific manner next time ? Will you have spent money and time and put enough lead downrange at several distances to know where the bullet will hit, what the drop is for different ranges and know how to reliably support the weapon in the field ?

I killed 1 buck with my Savage 20ga bolt action slug gun and that was shot right below the ear at 125 yards. Yes, if you do not get an accurate range, it is not going to be easy to hit anything clean, but a lot more so when a buck is facing directly at you pawing the ground and you don't want to gut shoot it. I figure I made 3 trips to the range and fired about 30 rounds of 3 different types of 20 ga slugs before I got the weapon figured out. After that, I needed an accurate range on the target, no other excuses.

Do you actually read any of my posts, or just scan a few words? Or is it really about getting the last word in?

Nice shot, btw.

I will say that I was looking for more insight from folks who shoot slug guns off sticks, but at this point, I'm thinking it's a moot issue. I'll do the testing and advise here.

M
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2013, 07:13 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near Napoleon,MI
Posts: 997
Re: Compound Errors Missed Target

Do you shoot a muzzle loader ? Because thats where I learned the techniques to shoot that worked just the same with a slug gun. The weapon needs to be shouldered firmly. With the non trigger hand, grip the fore-end and pull the stock back tight into your shoulder.

It IS different to shooting any rifle I have ever shot. Learning to get half respectable results with a muzzle loader was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Once you have the technique down, provided you hold the weapon the same way (regardless of whether you use anything to stabilize your aim) - you will get the same results. If you think you can just let a ML or slug gun lie on a rest, point it in the right direction and let loose, there is a steep learning curve ahead.

I am glad I did my learning with a ML, since it is considerably cheaper than paying close to $3/shell for the shotgun. In my case I put about 2lb of black powder and many different sabot slugs downrange before I got it figured out. With many of the inline ML out there, once you have the technique down, the only difference between them and the shot gun is the availability of a follow up shot..
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