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12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

 
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  #57  
Old 09-27-2012, 08:32 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 23
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

If I wanted to build a heavy lead pitcher like these. Would the old bolt action shotguns from Marlin, Stevens, Mossberg ect be any good for modifying? They are readily available around here for pretty cheap.
This is a hypothetical project as I'm currently on gun buying lock down...
But for the new guys to this type of thing, where should we look for service and supplies?
Thanks for taking the time to post all of this. It must be a big job but it is appreciated!
BB
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  #58  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:02 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 97
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Only bolt action ones I'd use besides Savage 210/212
is Mossy 395,495,595,695 and Marlin Goose guns, for strength
but the Marlin's port can't be opened up for long cases.
T he mossys listed can be opened up.
Other older bolts can't be opened up and are
not the strongest. That is why sometimes
is is easier to get NEF Ultra 12ga.Ed.
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  #59  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:55 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 23
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

I had a really nice Marlin 55 Goose gun with the 36 inch barrel in my hands but didn't buy it. I probably will because it was great! I usually stray from .12 ga. but I really dig this model gun. I missed the chance on 2 of them for cheap some years ago and have thought about them since. I really want to put some sort of long eye relief scope mount on it, like a scout rifle. It would be ridiculously cool looking..and hopefully shoot sweet.
I have a Savage 220F. A heavy rifled barrel and black walnut stock on that action wouldn't hurt my feelings! Not that it hurts my feelings as is. The 1st thing I thought when I got it was that a heavy barrel would make good sense.
Are any of the .600 nitro express components useful in considering loading for a heavy .20ga?
I may have an "African big game hunter" complex. lol! I'll never make it there, but I'm sure there's something I can hunt around here to justify the need for a big bore. Like bears...or Orange barrels..
Bow season starts Monday, This is a "future project"
All be safe
BB
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  #60  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:12 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 97
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Using 600NE cases in 20ga chambers ,you have lot of case mouth
expansion due to chamber being bigger at the mouth for thick 20ga cases.
You can get 20ga RMC cases that fit chambers for half of
600NE cases. 600NE slugs can be used. plus 58cal slugs in wadcups,
and you can cast 20 ga for fraction og 600NE bullets.

We hope a company will be making our modeled 12ga sabots
soon, this fall, to deliver to reloaders and suppliers..
We also got first part of funds collected for the initial big run
for our 585HE long cases being made. Sending in bunch
this week, and need more to make run bigger For more info
if your interested contact me.

We, others, and 'VdoMemorie' on the Cast Bullet forums
and Shotgun World are experimenting with 58cal Minie slugs and
58cal round balls in 20ga wadcups, and find it is away to slug
load your 20ga economically. You can use 20ga Commander wad and
also shorter "sporting 20 short" wad from BPI. I cut bottom off of
commander and use felt wads and 20ga obturator seal with .575"
470gr minie slug and got 4" group at 30 yds, with smooth barrel.
That is with heavy thick,smooth barrel I put in CBC below.

Here is picture of the CBC break action that I mono-blocked in smooth
super heavy, thick 20ga barrel..30" long, chambered for 3.5" cases.
Works great with 3.5" plastic or brass cases.



Here is picture of the 1887 WIn with my 585HE in it. I put in a
heavy barrel and different kind of extractor Barrel is 28"..
I like putting my 585HE in all the old style of guns, just
to show all the uses the case has.



I found supply of super long bmg cases to make my 700HE Long cases.
It is 4.27" long and holds over 370 gr ball powder, 1000gr at 3400 plus.
I have it in my Vulcan BMG bolt action and I just got one done in
a MRC PH bolt gun, in picture below...Ed


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  #61  
Old 10-30-2012, 04:08 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 97
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

I found pictures of a factory 12ga over under that
has bottom barrel rifled, top one smooth with screw
in chokes. Will have pics few days. Don't know
how heavy barrel is yet.

Also will have pictures and test of brass 585HE sent
here. They are 585HE case samples from the first big
run of my 585HE cases, Bertram is doing.Ed
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  #62  
Old 11-03-2012, 08:49 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 97
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Here is breach picture of that 12ga O/U made by Armi-Lumar
It has the bottom barrel rifled right from factory, top barrel smooth,
with interchangeble chokes. A real neat gun.



Good news, I got few samples of first production run of my 585HE
cases from Bertram, to test for strength and measure for uniformity.
They all measure perfect and especially the belt length headspace.
He made part of the run, a 1000, without headstamp..And over 3000
with headstamp. Cases only 3 bucks each if you get in on the first
shipment right away..Ship by mail to US cost too much, $1.50 each,
so we will have a bulk freight shipment to US as big as possible.
Folks in other countries order direct from Bertram.

This case can be used in different style guns.,
Bolt, Falling blocks, Break actions, Etc. I have reamers, and dies.
Manson Reamer can make more reamers,CH4D has dies also.
Earlier in thread I've shown various 585HE guns we have set up. Here
is a break action, with 585 barrel monoblocked in, one my favorites,
we just got done.




I tested 585HE moderate loads(650gr @ 2400) in NEF, CBC, Pedretti,
etc, break actions and didn't need sizing on the bottom 2/3. Real
tough built cases. Cases, are real uniform. For high test loads we
fired couple with 650gr at 3000 in Enfield bolt action, and it extracted
ok, and resized ok back to specs. About a 62k psi load. Pockets tight.

First picture, shown is some he made without headstamp that I stamped,
and some with stamp and ones I made on the right..
Also they can be used for wildcats, shorter cases, etc, and folks can stamp
what they want. 2nd picture you see them in a regular # 31 shellholder,
they don't need a special holder.

In 3rd picture of sectioned cases, you can see how strong the cases are
in base and corners, strong like the ones I made, on the left in picture,
which were real strong cases, that worked great with max loads..
The new 585 from Bertram on the right in picture.Nice strong base/corners.
He supplies same base cases for 408 Cheytac, used with hot sniper loads
that run real high average pressures..He will be manufacturing
these Cheytac runs regular, so we can get ours made anytime
we get money built up for an order..Ed







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  #63  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:46 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 97
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Here is overall view of the Armi-Lumar O/U 12ga that has
one barrel rifled. Second is another view of the breach.
Nice looking gun.





Here is picture of the 58cal Minie bullets in 20ga BPI Commander
shotcup wads, and some 50cal bullets in 20ga BPI Sport shotcups.
Sport wads were too small inside and to tapered inside for 58 cal.
Other two are 458 bullets in a non-discarding base that had SPW,
Buckhamer type slugs in them, that someone took apart, that I got.
And one 100yd group shot by Ajay on ShotgunWorld with Sav 220
20ga, with 20ga Commander wad and 58cal cast Minie bullets
measured about 2 inches. Four shots in two inches.Ed

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