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12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

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  #36  
Unread 02-13-2012, 04:46 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 315
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Here is some more older cartridges and ideas.
First is a fellows collection of older brass cases.
They look like Berdan primed. Run from
36ga to 12ga, big one on right is flare cartridge.



Second is a paper case clad with
thin brass nearly to the top.



Third is picture of paper case crimped into
the side of a slug with shallow grooves.I did one
pictured above with a Dixie slug.



Some experimenting with 12ga discarding style sabot idea
that takes 58cal slugs/bullets.I pictured them above.
A fullbore,bore fitting sabot that takes 575-580 cal
slugs or bullets, cast or jacketed.

For reloaders to use, and not undersize ones
that have been available, for reloading guys. That
the guys haven't been able to get speed and accuracy
at the same time. These sabots are super accurate in
most tests, in factory Remington sabot loads. Much
more so than the undersize sabots reloaders have
had to work with.

I tested with the 440 gr .575cal hollowbase
Dixie Gunworks # BA-1103 lead slug and 3 shots from
heavy long barrel NEF nearly into same hole, at
30yds. Gun locked down. Going about 2200.
Our slow powder loads in 3.5" plastic.
Can be loaded faster.

No tests at long range, bad eyes/no scope, colder
than witches ---, and no time.
I am trying to find who makes these.There are
about 2000 injection mold companies in US.Ed

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  •   #37  
    Unread 02-22-2012, 06:47 AM
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    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 315
    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

    Another 12ga sabot idea, first picture is a 570 gr USS slug,
    with Powder Cup seal from BPI, locked to USS discarding sabot
    section. This shortens column so that we can get more of the
    slower powders in we use, in shorter 2.75" cases. With slower
    powders, they get to peak pressure a little easier
    so that the cushion usually between seal and sabot/slugs
    isn't needed. This locked on seal will aid in smoothbore
    accuracy and it will work of course in rifled barrels.
    This sabot has a peg on the back that locks it in original
    setup to the green USS cushion base/seal, and we just pried
    it apart and drilled tight hole to match in the Powder Cup
    seal, and forced it on for a locked fit..
    Slug is .629" diameter.



    Next picture is 3 sizes of first USS sabot slugs, with
    the locked on bases which work good with them. Giving
    nearly rifle accurracy in smooth bores.



    Here is older picture of couple of Rodda 4 bores.
    Man what nice old guns.



    Next picture is a 1.5" Minie ball slug, might work for
    close to a one gauge. It is next to older 37mm case which
    might fire it also. Maybe a way to make a one gauge of
    sorts, if.......I get enough ambition...Ed

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      #38  
    Unread 02-25-2012, 07:47 AM
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    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 315
    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

    Some more 12ga sabot work. The sabots in first picture are
    like ones we want to get made for reloading.
    They have 440gr Dixie Gunworks muzzleloading minie slug.
    I related earlier that 3 shots with these in heavy rifled
    barrel NEF got them all in nearly the same hole, at 30 yds.
    Also 4 shots same distance, a 3 inch best group, smooth barrel.
    The slight hollow base helps with smooth barrel. The hollow
    base isn't as deep say as a 12ga foster slug.Another one they
    have, a little heavier, with little deeper hollow base should
    make tighter group. Loads in 3.5" plastic going about 2200.



    Second picture shows something new I found out.It shows two
    different wad setups. When I took the REM Accutip loads apart
    I notice they used a thick seal, old style white felt cushion.
    All the tests I read about that factory load, says it is always
    near the top in accuracy. I had used the BPGS and flexseal
    cushion mostly, as it seals real good. But in the smoothbore
    test above the thick seal and felt wad gave the 3" group and
    the other wad setup 5". The smoothbore, which isn't a perfect
    system, for slugs not designed for smooth, worked out to show
    and magnify difference between the two wad setups..

    What first clued me in on this, to make a check, was recent
    weeks research on net,on all sabot patents, where I read that
    sometimes plastic cushions cock a little affecting accuracy.
    That is the plastic cushions with a lot of space in them.
    Where the felt/fiber cushions stay much more stable for a bigger
    percentage of shots.The very accurate Hornady SST sabot has no
    cushion at all between seal and sabot, but a thin rubber cushion
    disc inside their sabot, and the above may be one reason.
    The Federal Fusion sabots and the Federal Expander sabot
    both are accurate--they don't have a wide open plastic cushion.



    Third picture is of a Greener Martini slug gun a guy rigged up
    with a heavy rifled bull barrel in 12ga. Great looking gun.



    Finally thoughts about all of our posts on many forums(110)
    around the net. We are very happy with the response and help
    we get doing this. We feel this thread a positive boon and help
    to shooters interested in big bores, and by venturing into
    the big bore areas will promote more guys getting into shooting,
    reloading, smithing, etc. And a measure of interest are the views.
    All sites including a big picture site, have about 9 million views.
    And also we congratulate the 24hr Campfire Big Bore as being
    being the first with our regular 12ga FH thread to go
    over 200,000 views.Next is the Highroad with nearly 150,000,
    third is the Firingline with nearly 125,000, 4th Accurate
    Reloading 112,000, and 5th WeaponsForum 106,000.ED
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      #39  
    Unread 03-03-2012, 11:28 AM
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2012
    Location: Michigan
    Posts: 23
    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

    How do feel a Savage 220F would be as a starting platform for a .20 gauge version? Maybe a 3" brass hull with a full bore lead projectile? The gun is incredibly accurate with Rem. accu tips, but they can be scarce. I have 10 rds. left that are strictly hunting rounds for now. The idea of rolling my own lead thumper's is very appealing!
    Thanks for all of the work posting all this fine information!

    BB
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      #40  
    Unread 03-03-2012, 05:21 PM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 315
    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

    Yes the Sav 220 is great gun and would do full bore slugs
    or SPW saboted slugs fine. You can cast your own or maybe
    find some full bore ones. BPI has different 20ga slugs.
    SlugsRus has SPWs. Ed
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      #41  
    Unread 03-03-2012, 09:40 PM
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2012
    Location: Michigan
    Posts: 23
    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

    Thanks again, I'll start looking into it!
    BB
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      #42  
    Unread 03-10-2012, 03:07 AM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 315
    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

    Some possibilities with the 12ga sabots we have been
    looking at. We may have possible leads on companies that
    can make sabots, that have most of equipment to do so.
    If they work out ok, the startup cost isn't as
    high as others who have to set up complete machines.
    We are working to line up a dealer who will get good ones
    made, at one of these sabot making companies.WE hope to
    have similiar design as the ones pictured below
    but with slightly thicker base. I've sent these sabots
    with Dixie cast slugs to different companies to show
    what is needed, and what the full size specs should be.
    With Dixie cast in they are similiar to Federal
    Fusion sabots with lead slugs, only our slugs are 58cal.
    We will keep you informed on what happens. At least 5
    58cal slugs that Dixie has, looks maybe to work in these,
    as best I can tell. And there are a few molds for
    58cal cast slugs, by different companies.
    The possibilities are, to reload with decent price slugs
    and simple inexpensive sabot like these, for buck a round.
    40-60 cent slug, 15-20 cent sabot, powder/primer 30 cents.



    Those sabots I pictured above we been testing, had 385gr
    Remington plastic nose bullets. I used some in my
    585HE and I get them to 3900 fps. Just to see how
    fast was possible in the 585. If I shot them in
    my biggest 585, the 585 HSM, they'd go about 4500 or so.
    They are real light compared to 750gr 585 cal bullets.
    Like a varmint round. Do up a coyote fine.All skinned.



    Some neat guns-First is a 20ga smooth bore Beretta style
    break action 20ga. This is one of the greatest style
    break actions there is. Beretta made their trap guns on
    actions like this and great value for no more
    than they cost. This one only 100 bucks.
    We lengthened chamber to 3.5" so it can
    use various 20ga smoothbore slug loads that we are
    working on and testing..The SPW, Hastings, Lightfield
    type 20ga slugs have decent 50yd accuracy in heavier
    smooth barrels.



    Next is couple of older guns I found pictures of,
    a 4bore Hughes and a 600NE Wilke. I like them.
    2nd is special 20ga double that poster Nitro 450 Express
    on the NitroExpress forum had built. Great job
    on nice looking slug gun.Ed




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