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12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

 
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  #15  
Old 12-05-2011, 11:28 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 108
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Quite a few have wanted doubles in our 12GA long case.
Rob is doing one on a big 10ga Zabala double,with Greener
crossbolt lock. He is replacing 10ga barrels with heavy
12ga rifled barrels, mono-blocked into the 10ga breaches
by threading them into the breach sections.
First,2nd,3rd pictures. He is now building and getting
barrel ribs done and the gun regulated.

4th picture is my 700HE in a Vulcan bolt action.
5th is the 6gal water pail from the Youtube video, atomizing.
The pail was heavy plastic, full and sealed tight.
That was 12ga 600gr hollow point slug about 3000 fps.












CASES-1st is comparison of 12ga FH brass cases, with ours on the
left we made using bmg brass, and 3 on the right that
are of a few we found already done in 12ga size, that is
as long as ours.RMC makes them long as ours and any length needed.
2nd is our long case next to short one.You can see how much
thicker and stronger our case is.

3rd is a slug made for rifled, for use in 12ga wadcup, and it
being 16ga size works in our 16ga FH case also, as shown.
4th shows 20ga RMC cases and dies we have found for them.


5th shows 1500gr 4bore slugs a guy cast for me and cases.
These are hollowbase, as our 4 and 8 gauges on the falling
blocks, are smoothbore. Top loads with these 25-2700.Ed










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  #16  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:13 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 108
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Some more gun info about what others around the world
are doing with big bores. First is a 4bore Tula pump
gun, made in Russia. A few guys in the US have them.
They are smoothbore and .938" bore. They used a short
3" long plastic case, and we helped some of the
owners get a run of brass cases by Rocky Mtn Cartridge.
Big Al, a poster on the AR Big Bore Forums owns one.
Our 4bore case is a full 1" bore 4.05" long.
Many early 4bores for shot were set up with .935-938"
smooth bores.

Second is a bolt gun a guy in Europe did in 1" bore
using 20mm brass expanded, ending up for
headspacing, a small shoulder. It is full length like
ours, instead of shortened like other pipsqueak ones.
3rd is our big and small falling blocks, big one
the 4bore we made and other a FBW Model L in 585HE.
Both stocks need finishing in these pictures
and metal surfaces has to be finished...I'm not a
fancy, finish smith and to busy experimenting,
to get everything real fancy.

4th is a 20ga FH 3.5" chamber break action. It is a
CBC and we monoblocked in a heavy long 20ga barrel.
5th is a Mauser 12ga GEHA conversion, that had real
light barrel and cracked stock. We put the extra
Savage 12ga 24", rifled slug barrel we had in it, and
used the strong Savage plastic stock. Still has original
3" chamber and we test our slow powder 3" plastic loads.
Great load with full bore slug, is 600gr Dixie, using
90gr IMR4759, going 1800. This load was lab tested
and verified for speed and only runs plastic case, magnum
shotgun pressures.














More info on cases, first is our cases where we put in a
bushing to use shotgun primers. Also some of the guys
shorten the cases for use in 3" and shorter chambers.
Magtech makes 2.5" 12ga drawn brass cases that guys
are reloading for use in short actions, like 1887 leverguns.
2nd is 8ga plastic cases we use, the left 2 are
REM and clear is WIN. These can be gotten at BPI
and Precision Reloading. We use roll crimp on
these for slugs and sabots.
1100gr at 2000 is a good load. 9 triple ought buckshot
is a good load. Totals 630gr for the 9, goes 2500
if you want hairy load.

3rd are 8 and 10 ga hard cast slugs with hollowbases, we use.
4th is some of our wildcat cartridge stuff, my 585HE cases,
die sets, and reamers. Dies are by CH4D, reamers by Manson.
5th is our 585HE in two break actions, a CBC and NEF.
Both set up by mono-blocking in 585 heavy barrels...Ed










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  #17  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:22 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: S.E. Missouri
Posts: 225
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Have you guys ever necked one of these cases down to ......say......458 so that you could use jacketed bullets with higher B.C.'s?
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2011, 03:19 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 108
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

There are guys who have necked bmg to 458 and416, which is the same
brass and base size as our cases we made from bmg brass.
I think Barrett and others have done that years ago. Others
made a 50cal from 20mm necked down and some were shortened,
some were full length. Latter for testing armor.

We can get as much speed by putting jacketed pointed bullets,
in 12ga sabots and shoot in rifled barrels. One is pictured above.Ed
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2011, 10:34 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: S.E. Missouri
Posts: 225
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Yeah I forgot about the sabot.

What's the longest range that you've done accuracy testing with the sabot loads?
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2011, 12:26 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 108
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Me only 50 yds. Only with blunt bullets.
I'm so busy with chrono, research, and building
my own stuff, no time for much range testing.

Others with factory sabots and sabots they test
loads with hunting bullets, at 100-150 -yds,

One guy who experimented a lot, 200 yds
with hunting bullets about 6" group.
And he got deer at 230 yds.

With say a long 50cal pointed bullet and good CCS
sabot you might do 400 yds ok. The sabots are the
critical part and only ones for reloaders and super good are CCS.
They cost quite a bit, being handmade. Ed
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  #21  
Old 12-10-2011, 03:14 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 108
Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH;585HE/700HE, other Big Bores--

Some more gun info. Here is picture of a nice, large diameter
action a fellow built, for big bore use.Nice beautiful machine
work, He put a 700 short case in it. He called it 700WTF.
It would do 12ga, 16ga, 20 ga, etc.

Second is the 8 bore we just made on falling block. It is
chambered for now for the 8ga 3.3" heavy duty plastic
case that we use. That we get by swaging the belt down on
the new 8ga kiln cases, that BPI and Precision Reloading sell.
The chamber fires old original 8ga cases also, but a regular
kiln load not swaged, won't chamber, a safety factor for guns not
as strong as the falling block. Guys in the UK gave me the idea
of swaging down the belt on kiln cases, as they did it
to get cases for their old 8ga doubles.

Third is the Savage 210 we put a 700 cal barrel in and made it
a 700NE. The 700 NE has same rim diameter as 12ga, but a
smaller base, ,020" smaller, Handles the loads fine, as its
factory loads are the same as our top loads in the Savage
with RMC 3.5 brass cases. Before that I had my 700H 3.25"
belted case in it. Worked great.

4th- we made a 28ga FH, a brass case 3.25" long that
RMC made for us. The chamber still fits and fires shorter
28ga plastic cases.Here is one in picture with a 505 Gibbs to show
the size and potential. I put first one in a Mossy 695 bolt gun
with a heavy rifled barrel. The 28ga rifled is same groove
diameter as the 550 magnum, so same diameter slugs work.

5th are couple of our 12ga FH cases guys shortened for
short actions, less recoil. Left are 2 inches,right 2.25"
and some have shortened them to 2.5" for use in
guns that will feed loaded 3" plastic. The 3" loaded plastic
and 2.5" brass with slug are about 2.7" overall..
If you folks have questions we'll help if we can.Ed














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